Curse

You just got tomahawked · Feb 20, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I did this in HA w/ a N/Mo backline and we ran out of energy before you could say DAAAMMNNNN. we went out there killed half their team, they ressed, I was out of energy ( I was N/Mo), they rolled us. You could probably cap halls w/ a regualr monk backline.

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Just make heroes unavailable in HA/GvG, problem solved. Then it won't matter how sort-of overpowered they are because it'll all be against other AI trash.

what will be the purpose of heroes then? pve? what did they advertise in my god damn nightfall box about heroes?

just prohibit players from using heroes in tournaments with real life prizes and all will be fine.

in addition, a sign of being good players is being able to handle builds like this and not losing to it. if you lose to it, you need to be less noob. thank those people who are playing this build. it's practice for you. it's for your own RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing good.

anyway, discord is indeed powerful but good thing is that its conditional. look.

[skill]Discord[/skill]
"a Condition and under the effect of a Hex or an Enchantment"

what does that mean? it means that a monk that can spam dismiss condition twice (or thrice) on an ally can save that ally from the "overpowered" discord. and if you tried this build, you'll notice that deathly chill is teh shiznit.

Riotgear · Feb 20, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

what will be the purpose of heroes then? pve?

Duh.

Quote:

what did they advertise in my god damn nightfall box about heroes?

They advertised hamstorm as being awesome on the Prophecies box.

Quote:

what does that mean? it means that a monk that can is skilled in using condition removal can save a target from the "overpowered" discord.

A skilled monk can't counter 6 copies of Enfeeble, some disease applications, and probably isn't going to have much luck when Toxic Chill is used as a pre-spike every few seconds.

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

By doing what?

sucking less?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A skilled monk can't counter 6 copies of Enfeeble, some disease applications, and probably isn't going to have much luck when Toxic Chill is used as a pre-spike every few seconds.

if you are playing balanced build, you should be able to counter everything by not absolutely relying on your skill bar. we all know that right?

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

sucking less?

You are telling me my guild has to be more skilled than eF to have any chance against a build with 4 heros? Well good luck to essentially every guild in the game then. Broken build.

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You are telling me my guild has to be more skilled than eF to have any chance against a build with 4 heros? Well good luck to essentially every guild in the game then. Broken build.

there are people who defeated that build.

eF are good players. maybe they underestimated Neo and lost.

You just got tomahawked · Feb 20, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

what will be the purpose of heroes then? pve? what did they advertise in my god damn nightfall box about heroes?

just prohibit players from using heroes in tournaments with real life prizes and all will be fine.

in addition, a sign of being good players is being able to handle builds like this and not losing to it. if you lose to it, you need to be less noob. thank those people who are playing this build. it's practice for you. it's for your own RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing good.

anyway, discord is indeed powerful but good thing is that its conditional. look.

[skill]Discord[/skill]
"a Condition and under the effect of a Hex or an Enchantment"

what does that mean? it means that a monk that can spam dismiss condition twice (or thrice) on an ally can save that ally from the "overpowered" discord.

remember this is coming from the member of the guild that popularized IWAY.

Edit: fixed wording

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

remember this is coming from the member of the guild that made IWAY.

yea i talk shit all the time. i must not be taken seriously.

my guild didnt make iway, fyi. we just played it, just like everyone else.

Glints Bane · Feb 20, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Please delete para, ass, rit, derv, and necro from the game until their extended beta test is over. Oh, and FIX THE GAME PLEASE, IZZY! NOT NEXT MONTH, NOW!

Oh yeah delete the necros...Even though they have, what 3 really good skills? Discord is a huge spike but it also has a pretty big req for it to work. All a monk has to do is remove a condition and the spike is flawed. while things like eles with there SF now that is over powered, so don't just bad mouth necros because they have a good skill(that has a hefty price) while eles can spam the same skill without any req. Yeah Discord is strong but come on people instead of wanting it nerfed and complaining wh don't you try to find a way to counter it(hint condition removal).

Glints Bane · Feb 20, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

remember this is coming from the member of the guild that made IWAY.

So that makes him what? IWAY was one of the greatest concepts in the game along with the 55 monk and so on. People may not like it but you must give credit to whoever came up with that build because they put time and thought into it.

Riotgear · Feb 20, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

All a monk has to do is remove a condition and the spike is flawed.

Any spike is flawed if the monk catches it.

Quote:

while eles can spam the same skill without any req.

Searing Flames does a couple points more fire damage than Discord does armor-ignoring damage, at several times the energy cost. It is not nearly as usable for the kind of spam-spiking that Discord is.

Quote:

Yeah Discord is strong but come on people instead of wanting it nerfed and complaining wh don't you try to find a way to counter it(hint condition removal).

If a team wants to spam conditions on everyone, there is no way you are keeping everybody clean. Disease, a ranger with apply, or more commonly, six copies of Enfeeble are enough to produce enough brown arrows to provide potential targets.

Stealth Rider · Feb 20, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Not to mention, the problem isnt really Discord. Try running a Discord build with 8 humans. It isnt easy. The problem is that heroes can keep conditions and hexes on 8 targets, instantly raise minions, and most importantly they find the *exact same* targets at the *exact same* time as soon as the conditions for Discord are met, and that target is down before you can say "infuse noob."

Wasteland Squidget · Feb 20, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Discord is definitely a problem. Don't let the fact that it works well with heroes fool you. A skill that deals over 100 damage on 5e/1s/2c is basically screaming at everyone to run retarded gimmick caster spikes based around meeting its conditions.

Epic Monkey Battle · Feb 20, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

I think limiting heroes (or removing) is a good idea, I mean if you can't gather 8 people for a player versus player battle, then maybe you should wait until you have 8 people. And the reaction time of heroes is just rediculous. You just removed the most difficult part of the spike with this build... the 3 2 1 count.

Thomas.knbk · Feb 20, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Limiting heroes is not the way. They should change discord to its old dmg, but it'd have to meet only one of the requirements. Or 40 unconditional dmg and 15 additional dmg for each requirement met.

Patrograd · Feb 20, 2007, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

if you are playing balanced build, you should be able to counter everything by not absolutely relying on your skill bar. we all know that right?

So if you run a build with 2 dismiss conditions, expel hexes and divert hexes you should be able to cope comfortably, right?

Wrong

Look, the skill is broken in the hands of heroes because of the hero AI reaction time. No-one in their right mind would run this with 8 humans becasue it is significantly weaker. This fact alone is more than enough to warrant either the immediate removal of heroes from GvG, or if Anet decides that heroway suits their PVE customer base then they simply have to nerf this skill to hell, twice preferably

it was a bit of a joke before when everyone realised that the necro hero was the best tainted player you could have, and if you were running tainted you should really run him instead of a human, but this is taking it to a new and ridiculously powerful level

red orc · Feb 20, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

What need to be done is to fix heroes. Currently heroes can scan all 8 foes + as many NPCs in 0 time to find the right target. No person can do that. They can interrupt skills which no person can interrupt. Anet should not enable them to perform tasks which human cannot do. It's like playing with a fixed dice. Anyway, heroes should not be in GvG. End of story.

p.s. This build is spreading. Last night we faced such a build and we won, not cause we rolled them (they were rolling us and cleaning our GH), but cause they lack game experience, which shows you that this build is broken.

Elrodien · Feb 20, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I agree that it's the heroes need fixing and not the skill. The reaction times of the heroes should be worse than the average humans not impossibly fast.

I do admire whoever thought this up however, but the bottom line should be that 8 players should be much better in pvp than four players and heroes.

As for IWAY, was it really genious? I thought it was a joke build at the start with 8 w/r???

Kabale · Feb 20, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

As for IWAY, was it really genious? I thought it was a joke build at the start with 8 w/r???

IIRC, it was 8 warriors with fear me, a hammer, and iway. it wasn't that bad in its initial carnation but gradually evolved into a killing machine (orders, traps, nature's, etc.)

Mental Leteci · Feb 20, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

there are people who defeated that build.

eF are good players. maybe they underestimated Neo and lost.

My thoughts exactly. People think it's overpowered just because eF lost to it? What a sad way to think, I can guarantee you that a single guild in this topic will never beat any top guild cause of this type of thinking. There are teams who won against it, does that automatically means they're better than eF since eF lost to it?
I'd say the IWAY guy is right this time so I'm gonna agree with him.